Playing in the Sandbox

[sarcasticmuppet]

Inasmuch as I was crazy about the original EE clicky game, I think setting out to recreate every bit of it is just asking for disappointment  What I'd like to do, however, is take some of the ideas that some of the mechanics, see how they inform the story, and see how we can inform the story in similar ways with the mechanics available to us here.  While in some ways mechanics are just a bunch of html codes, I think really honing them to the overall story we would like to tell will make for a richer experience overall.

I like the koku setup but I can almost see it as a somewhat more general 'resources' type of stat.  You could get items, certainly, but also things like favors (remember the ubiquitous clan favors ) or even ranks (I felt really infested in the game when I finally achieved my taisa rank, for example).  The only thing then is...what do you do with the stuff once you have it?  Where is a place to spend items to get something else?  Could such a thing even be possible?  Drew said there were ways to give out koku by way of redemption codes.  So in some ways koku could be somewhat mod-controlled (giving out the code to redeem koku for noticed good RP) or codes could simply be given to members of the forum for taking the lead on other threads and RPs, somewhat deputizing them as a temporary storyteller for some time while the code is available.  In this way it can take some load off of the mods to keep up with the whole board.

I'm actually okay with experience points being handed out on a per-post basis.  I think a mod staff could be pretty good I think about catching spammers who just try to game the system, especially if we implement a plugin called Automerge which automatically converts subsequent posts in the same thread by the same person into one post.  Experience would then be very easy to gain if you have regular back-and-forth.  What might be a very easy-to-understand (note I didn't say easy to code) would be to have experience points go automatically to an experience pool and make basically a character sheet where you spend your points to raise your stats.  If this were the case maybe some kind of end-cap, where super high stats start to give diminishing returns for the amount of xp spend to raise them (the cost to raise a skill rank is the new rank times two, for example).  It makes it a little bit like the actual L5R rpg in some ways, and makes it easy for new players to catch up and get good stats fairly easily.

These are my thoughts right now, I'm sure there will be more to come.  It's very much Alpha test phase right now, and depending on what's available to use, what we can build from scratch, and what ideas we come up with to make a genuinely great game.

[Aedo]

It looks like for the automerge plug in you can set how much time it takes before a post is not merged. Which means that if someone is rping by themself and takes several hours between posts, then they can still have separate posts, and still get a goodly amount of xp for good role-playing.

[Aedo]

Also! post in this thread if you feel like you want admin powers to mess around with the board coding and such.

[mitsu]

Some of my notes regarding system...
There is a simple XP plugin and also, the Stats plugin we already talked about. Both use posts as counter, which is not the perfect way to do it, but is, nevertheless, an automatic way that is, right now, available.

Anyway, I imagine a scenario using XP x ranks:
XP leads a character to higher ranks;
Higher ranks leads you to a higher samurai salary (even the ronin, for instance, can ask more for their occasional works).
For instance:
1-60 XP rank 1
60-120 XP rank 2
120-220 XP rank 3 etc
and
Rank 1 = 5 koku per post + 5% koku weekly/ monthly
Rank 2= 8 koku per post + 8% koku weekly/monthly
Rank 3= 12 koku per post + 12% koku weekly/monthly etc
The monetary system allows us to prevent a member from earning koku from certain threads. If it is the idea, opening non-RP boards where people could freely discuss aspects of their RP threads and other subjects, completely separate from the "RP area", where the koku points would be effectively given, would be a way to get it.
Every clan (and minor clan league) could have a fictional collective account named, for example "unicorn funds", "crane treasures", "mantis bank", etc. So, the members would gift items and koku to this account, when they desire to reinforce their clan power for a given activity. As the activity ends, the staff deletes the given away items/ koku from the clan collective accounts.
It is a rough idea of what we could do, anyway, I hope it inspires us to find a good way to use the monetary system.
EDIT: not a visible way to delete items, in the current plugin, for all I saw.

UPDATE: I found wormopolis (a proboards coder) board and there, he has a depository of v4 plugins. They do not work in v5. Though, I thought some of them are interesting ideas for what we could have/do here.
www.wormocodes.proboards.com/thread/977/custom-rank-points
www.wormocodes.proboards.com/thread/139/karma-restricted-post-count
www.wormocodes.proboards.com/thread/535/character-creator-post-count
Also, he accepts requests to make v5 versions of the older plugins.

But, since I am talking about what we not really have right now...
I think it would be interesting if we can get a plugin that could make a poll work like an "action poll". It should be linked to the monetary system, of course. I mean, member must spend koku/items in order to vote in the poll. Or, in a more sophisticated way, every option could have their own cost *_*
Maybe we could get the developer of monetary system, Peter, to get interested in such idea?

I'm a bit busy right now, but I'll try to be around as often as possible.

[Aedo]

I like Mitsu's idea of a poll that can be voted multiple times but costs items to vote. It creates a use for items that we don't have right now.

Concerning the idea of rising wages, I'm not sure we necessarily want to do that. If higher people gain more stuff faster then they will gain power that much more quickly. Same with XP. I feel like growth should slow down as a person gets higher, making it take longer for them to reach super powerful levels, and giving new people a chance ot sort of catch up a little.

I also think the idea of a clan account, while it has merit, might be superfluous. If a clan wants to throw its weight behind a vote, then its members should coordinate on what to do. If nothing else, creating an extra account, especially a group account will imply more coding, which, to me, is slightly distasteful. The more things we can do without having to code the better. While this means more work for the staff, I feel it is less work, and more doable work, than trying to figure out new plugins which suck resources from the forum.

On the note of forum resources and plug-ins I should note that there are data storage units called keys which are used in plug-ins, especially plug-ins where each member is tracked accordingly. We have 10 regular keys and 2 super keys. We have already used up the 2 super keys in the monetary system and the gold shop. If we want more super keys we need to pay for them. It's not a big cost, but it is a cost that someone has to pay. As such, we should be careful to only use more keys than necessary in the final forum we choose to use, if even then.

[mitsu]

I don't mind helping with the costs of some keys, if needed be (I'd donate for EE2 cause). Anyway, free things are even better!

I'd really like to see a "pay to vote" poll system, if it is possible to code (I believe it is, though I'm not sure how). It would bring much of the old excitement back!

When i thought the clan account, I didn't think it would require coding. Actually, just some email accounts to create "ficctional members". Deleting koku from a member is a easy task for an admin. Of course, if we get the "paid poll system" working, it would make this system obsolete.



About the XP x wage idea, you must have noted that the XP rate to achieve the next rank are progressive (in my original idea, they do)... Anyway, that was an idea. I do believe as we go higher, we must have better benefits. In some games, we get more powerful techniques, powers, spells, and the such. In samurai ranks, we are better paid. Do a daimyo earns the same amount as a low rank samurai? Do a important member of the clan (higher ranked) have more financial power, and can he have more personal resources to either invest in his personal projects (bribe, gift, sponsoring, etc), or common matter of his clan? Just my thoughts.

[sarcasticmuppet]

Also, just a thought if there's ever any kind of items for votes type setup:

I just realized that buying things in the gold shop is *incredibly* inconvenient. no shortcut keys that I can see to automatically purchase multiples, just click here, click there *per* item. It's not a deal breaker, but it definitely slows things down if you happen to have a lot of koku.

[mitsu]

goo.gl/ATvDYO

If you guys could kindly support my plugin request thread with comments and showing interest, ...it would be of help. I think we can get the "Paid Poll" plugin sooner or later. Our idea caught the developer's attention, at least.

[sarcasticmuppet]

Is there a way to make guest posts?

[Aedo]

Concerning Moderators

Here is a system Mai and I developed last night during a long car ride home. We think that it will help to create a stable amount of staff and allow for the organic growth of moderators who are qualified to deal with the responsibilities of such.

The basic conceit is this. Mods should only be assigned to active groups of people and should be selected by that group to ensure the best possible representation of group concerns and needs. So picture this: We do not assign mods up front in the game. Rather, after a week or two of initial play we evaluate the Clan groups and see which of them actually need mods. A group should have about 5 or so people to require a mod. Any group with lower numbers than that can fall under the responsibility of the Admins for the time that they have low activity numbers. For the Clans who have enough active people we ask them to decide among themselves who their moderator should be, giving them the qualities we would like to see in the mods.

Moderators should be generally responsible for the civil conduct of the people in their clan. IF something gets out of hand, the mods are the first line of defense against total chaos. They are responsible for talking to and warning their people of bad behavior. We would most likely give the mods limited disciplinary powers on the boards and specifically within the boards that they moderate.

Moderators should remain active as much as possible. We all understand that real life happens and may take people away from our game. This is totally fine. There are more important things in the world than our little corner of the internet. That being said, we want to make sure that the people who have power on the board are those who are active and invested in it and its well being. An active mod should be posting in a role-play thread at least once a week and hopefully more often in out of character discussions as needed. This is not an intense requirement on purpose, but it is a bare minimum that most mods will hopefully be able to easily surpass. A mod who cannot fulfill this requirement for several weeks in a row will be considered inactive until such time as they return to greater activity.

Speaking of which. When a clan's mod goes inactive we will not immediately push them out of that position. As long as the clan generally behaves we have no need to remove that mod from their position. A new clan mod will only be selected if the need arises and should be selected by that group. Again, a clan needs at least five active people before it really qualifies for having a mod. A moderator who has decided that they do not want to continue being a mod for whatever reason, or for no reason at all, may graciously step down. The clan will then select a new mod as the need arises.

As for in character positions of a moderator, they need not hold any special office. The responsibilities of moderators are primarily out of character and can be represented without the need of having them have in character power as well. Moderation powers should come as a result of a show of responsibility and maturity, while in character positions should come from a show of ambition and good role-playing.

Now in the past, the position of in character clan champions has arisen. Any clan that wants to have an in character clan champion among its players may do so and they should consider that decision carefully. The whole clan should decide together whether or not they want an in character champion. There is no requirement that the clan champion be a player character. It is entirely possible that a clan will have an NPC champion and that is fine. If a clan wants to have an in character champion, that person should be a leader among their in character clan and will carry some heavy story responsibilities and wield a considerable amount of story power. Players who are clan champions should also realize that there are many players in their clan who may have many stories going at any given time and should take special effort to allow all players int he clan to have their own stage. They should not heavily dictate what stories are told or what actions are made by individual members of their clan. clan champion is also a position of responsibility more than one of entitlement. Players who wish to hold that seat should be prepared for it.

[mitsu]

I basically agree about mods role, though I'd raise the minimal number of member in a clan in order to get their own clan mod, to 15. Below that, I can't see a real need of clan mods and I believe admins (or global mods) can deal any issues very well.
About clan champions, I'm not so sure it can be "so loose". I mean, in a given time, some players can think it's ok not to have a player doing the clan champion role. But then, in later stages, some newer players can think they need a clan champion, especially if other clans have it, and theirs, don't. It can cause a lot of unnecessary stress. So, I believe it can be stated that either ALL clans will have a clan champion (defined by the clan by any methods they deem fit) or no clan will.
Of course, it can also be stated that the player of such important role MUST be very active (the same criteria Aedo mentioned we could use to mods). The hatamoto of the clan can replace the clan champion in their absence, and inactive clan champions shall be voted to be replaced by his heir or hatamoto of the clan (all roles defined by the clan).
Alternatively, all clan champions are mere NPC and the hatamoto of the clan is an active member chosen by their clan peers.

[Aedo]

Getting 15 people into one clan at one time is REALLY ambitious. I guess I should clarify that I mean active members, not just recorded members. I don't think that original EE even had that many people per clan at its height.

Now as a variant system, we could allow one mod per 15 people and have one mod look after multiple clans. So if, say, Senshi were a mod he could look after the Scorpion, Crane, Dragon, and Crab clans all at once, depending on how many people they have in total. That would, in fact, cut down on the number of mods needed while still allowing even small groups to have some recognition and oversight. As I write this, I like that idea more and more. If there are no real disagreements, I would like to implement that new system, instead.

Being a clan champion or hatamoto is primarily an honorary position for the purposes of our game. I think we can play pretty easily there, we don't need to have a strict set of guidelines for it. But I do like Mitsu's idea of an NPC champion with PC hatamoto. That would give about the right feel for the power level I would like to see in the game.

[mitsu]

Global mods can do it pretty easily.
And yes, a PC hatamoto would help to guide/talk by the clan without loosing much of the fun, while keeping the champion image kind of "safe"...

[Aedo]

Change of topic that still relates to the technical side of the boards.

I want somebody to confirm the following hypothesis.

Hypothesis: Creating a proboards plugin is the equivalent of creating a javascript script that executes when pages are loaded or creates new pages to load. Every script relies on three basic things. The first thing is variables which must be defined or accessed within the script itself and are pieces of information. The second thing is functions which are ways of using variables (information) to execute actions. The third thing is listeners which are interactive ways of accessing the functions from the human side of the program. Therefore, creating something like a proboards plug in is composed of three basic steps, which are: defining variables, creating functions, and creating listeners.

I would bet that this is a horribly simplified view of the whole situation but I want to know if I have the basic gist of it or if I'm way off. The reasoning behind this is that I think I have a plan to create a plugin for XP and RPG stats. I think I can use the yootil library to create a simplified mash together of the monetary system and the gold shop to cobble together what I would like to use for our RPG stats system.

Below is the (possibly very long) basic design document for this plug in.

Objective: I want to create a proboards plugin that will store and display six stats that are useful to every user on the EE board. These six stats are Earth, Fire, Wind, Water, Void, and Experience Points (XP). The most important of these stats is XP. XP is a variable that will grow as a result of users posting in character threads. The other five stats will grow as a result of the user expending stored XP to "buy" higher stats. Therefore, this plugin will also need to implement a form of "store" page where players can execute the buying functions of the plugin.

This plugin will facilitate the basic game mechanics of the new EE forum role-playing game. Users will be rewarded for making role-playing posts with the XP stat and the store aspect provides a use for the XP stat to increase the other five, which in turn makes the user more powerful within the game.

Necessary Concrete Resources:

• Yootil Library
• One (or more) Super user key
• Javascript Editor
• Plugin Build Tool
• Javascript Reference Library

Foreseen Variables(per user):

• Earth Stat
  
• Air Stat
• Fire Stat
• Water Stat
• Void Stat
• Temporary versions of each of the five stats for shopping purposes
• Total XP
• Current XP
• Temporary Current XP
• Growing Costs for Each of the Five Stats

Proposed Functions:
(displayStats)
A function which accesses the stored six stats and shows them in a list within each user's miniprofile.

(displayStats_2)
A function which accesses the stored six stats and displays them within each user's main profile.

(xpGain)
A function which increases the value each time the user posts within a certain category in the board (Which will be the In Character Category). This gain is permanent and will need to be stored in the Total XP variable.

(setXP)
A function which allows Admins to reset a user's XP value to a new value.

(storefrontPage)
A function which creates a new page wherein players can exchange earned XP for increases in each of their Five Stats. This page should include individual functions for buying up stats as well as a save button to finalize stat buying.

(buyStat_1-5)
A function which temporarily raises one of the five stats. There will actually need to be five of these.

(sellStat_1-5)
A function which allows a user to temporarily regain XP in exchange for lowering a temporary five stat value to a minimum of the current permanent stat level.

(finalizeStats)
A function which allows a user to save changes to the five stats and therefore permanently exchange XP for higher stat values.

Proposed Listeners:
Reset XP (On the user's profile page)
-Input field used to execute (xpSet)

The following should be on the store page.

5 Increase Stat buttons
-button used to execute (buyStat)

5 Decrease Stat buttons
-button used to execute (sellStat)

Save Button
-button used to execute (finalizeStat)

[mitsu]

Though I'm not into javascript, your reasoning seems pretty right, Aedo. Also, though I have little time to get in the forums this month, I'm following it and 'Im trying to get something to contribute.
News coming soon...

[mitsu]

Well, I found someone who can work in the "poll plugin". Let's see how it develops. I hope I can bring more news within the next week.

[Aedo]

Sweet Action.

[Raposa]

I'm working on a somewhat "fate system" (It is for other game, but also based on EE so may be can share), not done yet but it should allow people to "vouch" (action) for certain posts multiple times.
It will a take a while before we can test, uses a super key. That's it, just posting so people know I'm still around

[Mitsuthelazy]

Ok, has been a long time...

though, I'm still working in the code. Right now, I have a piece of code that needs some tweaking and testing, It probably will take another seven days...

[Raposa]

Uhu \o/
These are good news